Thoughts whilst on the road.

"norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback" (norskracer98) 04/12/2015 at 22:04 • Filed to: None

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OK, you know how people constantly rag on GM and Cadillac for using the same signal stalk as a Chevy Sonic? Why does no one give a shit when Volkswagen put the same headlight switch from a Golf S in a GT3 RS and Mercedes does the same between the CLA250 and S63 AMG. It pisses me off when people say Cadillac does that and they'll never be as good as the Germans because of it, when the Germans manufacturers to the same exact thing.

/rant

TheHondaBro > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:13

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The Spark is a cheap car. The Golf S and CLA250 aren't.

If VAG used the stalk from a VW Up!, Polo, or Fox, then it would be the same. Same thing if Daimler used the stalk from a Smart.

Alex from Toronto > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:15

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I think it's just nit picking because it's GM, and people think they still cant make a good car. An example of this would be people complaining about the exposed fastners on the new corvette, I don't think the same would happen if it was an Audi.

buford-t-justice > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:16

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at least a caddy will start below -5*c (mum's x3)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:17

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Because GM.

Literally that's it, that's all it takes for a car to be ragged on because it's made by GM.

marshknute > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:18

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The Germans designed a turn signal stalk for their luxury flagship and stuck it in their entry-level sedan.

GM designed a cheap and chinsy turn signal stalk for a penalty box and put it into a luxury car.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > marshknute 04/12/2015 at 22:22

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On what basis do you have to say GM designed the stalk for the Spark first? You don't know that at all.

samssun > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:24

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Golf S starts under 19k doesn't it?

Jayhawk Jake > marshknute 04/12/2015 at 22:26

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Do you actually have any experience with Chevy switchgear or are you talking out your ass?

Chevrolet switchgear is fantastic these days. Everyone that's driven my car loves the steering wheel. There's nothing chintzy about the signal or wiper stalks. All the knobs and buttons are great.

Seriously, go to a Chevy dealer, hop in a Sonic, then come back here and tell me the turn signal is cheap and chintzy. I'll wait

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:29

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The answer to these and all other questions is usually brand snobbishness.

scoob > Alex from Toronto 04/12/2015 at 22:30

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I thought it was only Tohru joking about the exposed fasteners on anything?

Jayhawk Jake > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:33

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But the switchgear isn't cheap. I don't understand where people are getting the idea that Chevy switchgear is cheap.

I daily a Chevy. I've spent a lot of time in an Audi. The GM stuff doesn't stand out as cheap to me any more than the Audi gear stands out as expensive

DasWauto > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:34

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Nitpicking. These people are to be ignored. If you argue with them, you are feeding the troll, regardless of right or wrong.

PS9 > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:34

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The gap between a spark and a golf S can be as small as $2k, relative to options and trim levels.

bob and john > Jayhawk Jake 04/12/2015 at 22:34

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I sat in a focus last year at the auto show. And a spark. not impressed. it felt flimsy. Nothing like the turn signal my my dads A3.

TheHondaBro > Jayhawk Jake 04/12/2015 at 22:40

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I didn't say the switchgear was cheap, I said the Spark is a cheap car, especially compared to a Golf and the CLA-class. It's okay to use the same switchgear in a moderately-luxurious car, like a CLA, in cars like the S-class. But Spark switchgear in a Cadillac? No thank you. I'd rather feel like I'm in a luxurious car than a Spark.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:43

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It's a goddamn blinker stalk, not a dashboard.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 22:45

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The German's don't do the same thing. The switch in a Golf S and the GT3 RS are different. Not considerably so, but they are different. If anything, the switch out of the Golf looks nicer. And Mercedes has never taken any piece out of a $14k car and put it in their range topper. Do you know why? Because Mercedes does not make a $14k car.*

But more to your point (and without getting into the obvious difference in quality in recent years), Cadillac can't compete with the German big three right now because they didn't even try to compete with them 40 years. Cadillac started digging their own grave in the 70's, and it took them until the mid 2000's to slap themselves in the face and realize that they were about to die in the very hole they dug for themselves. Cadillac has a serious problem with their brand image right now, and when I say that I mean the only people who still think Cadillac has a positive brand image lived through WWII and most likely live in Florida. Caddy has done a good job showing progress in the last few years, but progress is not enough to compete with three companies with a global image of superior European luxury.

Anyone who says Caddy can never compete is wrong, and anyone who says Caddy is currently competing has their head up their own ass. Cadillac is on the right track now, but it's going to take some time for them to straighten out their own image and become a real contender.

*that is marketed in the US as a Mercedes Benz

TheHondaBro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/12/2015 at 22:46

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I'm expressing my goddamn opinion, okay?

Jayhawk Jake > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:47

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I actually don't know if the spark has the same gear as a Cadillac. I don't even know if it's the same as the sonics. I do know I wouldn't be bothered by having the Sonics gear in a Cadillac

Jayhawk Jake > bob and john 04/12/2015 at 22:48

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Maybe the Sparks is cheaper, I don't know. There's nothing flimsy about the switchgear in the sonic

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:48

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And so am I. Two sided debates, what a thing.

Jayhawk Jake > DasWauto 04/12/2015 at 22:51

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It's one thing to nitpick, it's another to make completely false claims based on a stat sheet

TheHondaBro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/12/2015 at 22:52

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I used to have a Ford-elitist friend, and the shit that constantly spewed out of his mouth made me pathologically hate Fords. The way I've been seeing you react to situations like this makes me feel the same way about General Motors (no offense to you). I'm not calling you an elitist or anything, but a lighter tone would be nice.

Alex from Toronto > scoob 04/12/2015 at 22:53

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Oh I thought it was a thing.

bob and john > Jayhawk Jake 04/12/2015 at 22:53

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compared to the switch gear in the audi? it was.

seriously, the turn signal in tht car (the A3) is SOLID. Ive yet to come across another car with a turn signal thats feels that well put together.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > TheHondaBro 04/12/2015 at 22:59

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The reason I react to these comments like this is because you get so worn down from trying to defend a company who has vastly improved everything about themselves in the last 4-5 years from people who probably haven't even so much as sat in one made after 2005 but bash them anyway you stop giving a shit about having a nicer tone with people. Especially when the complaints about a goddamn blinker stalk being shared between two cars in different price brackets. So I'm sorry if my tone isn't the lightest but I've been constantly defending GM when they get bashed for doing industry standard practices since I joined here and it's to the point that I really don't give a shit how my comments come across anymore.

DasWauto > Jayhawk Jake 04/12/2015 at 22:59

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I called it nitpicking because these people look for something, anything, to complain about. When you have to stoop to such menial things as signal stalks, it's pretty clear that there is little to legitimately gripe about. .

Frenchlicker > bob and john 04/12/2015 at 23:28

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I honestly cannot tell if you guys are being completely serious or not.

bob and john > Frenchlicker 04/12/2015 at 23:35

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I am.

really, signalling in tht car. when the signal bounces back to center, it moves back and for and vibrates.

the audi? goes back to center and stays there.

also, the dash in tht spark (the focus too...but less so) flexed when I pushed on it. the audi, not even close. you'd sooner break your hand then move tht thing.

Yea, its little things. But its the details that set apart a high quality car VS a run of the mill econo box.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/12/2015 at 23:35

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VAG uses (and has used) the same key fob in most MK4-MK6 Volkswagens...

IIRC they also used that fob in the 09-14 R8

Frenchlicker > bob and john 04/12/2015 at 23:40

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You would love an old Taurus, it so wants to stay in the middle solidly that the turn single will not lock on. Sorry, I had to poke fun.

bob and john > Frenchlicker 04/12/2015 at 23:55

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pfft.

marshknute > Jayhawk Jake 04/13/2015 at 00:09

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You have to use a VAG indicator stalk to understand. They have that "solid German feel" to them. To signal left (push down), you have to first overcome some resistance—except it doesn't budge a millimeter until you exceed the force threshold. At that point, you can feel the weight of the stalk carry itself into position. However, when it reaches the end of its motion, it stops dead without vibrating or bouncing back.

GM switchgear feels plasticy when you operate it. You can feel it bending/flexing, and you can feel hard plastic moving against hard plastic. You can also feel it bounce back. NOTE: it may not visibly bounce/bend/flex, but your fingers can still feel the forces inside upsetting the stalk.

Again, you have to experience it to understand. After owning an Audi and BMW, I could never go back to a Jag or Lexus, let alone a Cadillac.

Jayhawk Jake > marshknute 04/13/2015 at 00:28

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I have. My mother owns an A5. Its turn signal doesn't feel any more special than my Sonic's.

I feel none of what you describe in my car. Have you been in a GM product from the last 3 or 4 years?

I can't help but feel like you're totally full of crap and just trying to find any excuse to rag on GM whilst praising the Germans

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > bob and john 04/13/2015 at 00:31

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But is it a steel stalk?

These fuckers won't break. I've actually used the turn signal to pull myself in to the vehicle.

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/13/2015 at 00:35

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Pfft! Signal stalks will be a thing of the past when my telepathic blinkers make it to market, "thinkers" is what the system is called. It's mainly designed for BMW owners, if they think about turning they will indicate whether they like it or not.

bob and john > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/13/2015 at 00:35

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I dont know if it is or not, but it does feel that solid.

M54B30 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 04/13/2015 at 00:39

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just like how Escalades had the same ugly fob as a Grand Prix.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > M54B30 04/13/2015 at 00:40

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Eh, the VW fob is actually pretty good though

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > bob and john 04/13/2015 at 00:41

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These feel more solid than some column shifters I've used.

M54B30 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 04/13/2015 at 01:45

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you'll get no argument from me on that one

Your boy, BJR > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/13/2015 at 01:46

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Excuse me, but based on fucking what?

BloodlessWeevil > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/13/2015 at 05:49

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If we're nitpicking little details on Cadillac...

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/in-defense-of-…

Your boy, BJR > Jayhawk Jake 04/13/2015 at 07:19

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Cadillacs have no switchgear in common with abything besides other Cadillacs these days. Hell, once the XTS is discontinued for 2016, they'll technically only have one vehicle that shares a direct platform with anything else in the GM family- the Escalade

Your boy, BJR > M54B30 04/13/2015 at 07:20

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......yeah, back in 2006, NINE YEARS AGO

Your boy, BJR > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/13/2015 at 07:27

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Cadillacs have no switchgear in common with anything besides other Cadillacs these days. Hell, once the XTS is discontinued for 2016, they'll technically only have one vehicle that shares a direct platform with anything else in the GM family- the Escalade

jkm7680 > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/13/2015 at 07:38

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Cadillac is well on their way to get on level with the Germans, but they've still got some work to do.